The following is a largely AI-generated transcript for our Episode 200 live show. Excuse any errors, we’re trying to catch up on these and need to sort out a workflow. Want to help make our transcripts better? Let us know if you can help our support us on Patreon.

Ian Bushfield: Coming to you from the West Coast, this is PolitiCoast. This the 200th episode on July 30th, 2020.

[00:00:54] I’m Ian Bushfield

[00:00:56] Scott de Lange Boom: I’m Scott de Lange Boom

[00:00:59] Stewart Prest: I’m Stewart Prest

[00:00:59] Jillian Stead: I’m Jillian Stead.

[00:01:01] Ian Bushfield: Welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:03] It’s great to be able to play that song because if we don’t actually listen to it when we record and it just gets spliced in after and Srge Plotnikoff is just so refreshing. And the best thing that I think has happened all year, at least for the podcast, is one of our patrons was gifted a Serge Plotnikoff LP record. Which is just incrdibly dorky. And I love it.

[00:01:29] Thank you for joining us on our live stream. We’re on Facebook live. People are starting to join us. Hopefully more do. Share this, tell others.

[00:01:38] On today’s special live 200th episode, we’re going to be talking about what the pandemic has meant for politics, both at the political science level and at the gritty day-to-day political strategy level.

[00:01:49] And hence we’ve invited a political strategist, Stewart Prest and sorry, a political strategist, Jillian P Stead, and, a political scientist, Stewart Prest. Uh, welcome both back to the podcast.

[00:02:02] Stewart Prest: Thank you very much.

[00:02:03] Jillian Stead: Thank you. And I’ll say retired political strategist and retired

[00:02:08] Ian Bushfield: Digital strategist.

[00:02:09] Stewart Prest: My political advice is free and worth every penny.

[00:02:14] Ian Bushfield: I want to acknowledge before we begin that I’m recording, we’re recording this, albeit remotely from one another on the ancestral and unceded territories of the hən̓q̓əmin̓əm̓ and Sḵwx̱wú7mesh speaking, peoples of the Coast Salish territories here around Metro Vancouver.

[00:02:29] Thank you as well to the 150, a hundred plus patrons who support this show, giving us $350 a month.

[00:02:38] We launched our Patreon a couple, several months after launching the podcast and have just been overwhelmed, not just that people will want to listen to it, but that they want to give us money. And that has helped cover the costs of hosting the costs of various. Equipment and gear costs of studio when we were meeting in person.

[00:02:57] But now that would be a highly infectious close space where we’d be projectiling at each other. Uh, and that also bought a lot of beer, uh, especially in the early days when we were drinking Pacific pills or on it. Thank you also to BC today. Shannon waters, uh, Alison Smith and the whole team there.

[00:03:17] They’ve been supporting the show, um, indirectly for quite a while. We built a partnership with them shortly after they launched their newsletter has been an invaluable source of news for us. Everyone who’s not signed up for it should, if you like. They show you what, like BC politics, you should barely follow Shannon waters.

[00:03:35] We have her on the show all of the time politics today.news, but let’s jump into it. I said, we want to talk about the big picture stuff, but there’s actually news this week and I didn’t really want to talk news, but when you have someone drop out or announce their resignation of in a, such a narrow BC legislature, It could mean something so sorry.

[00:04:00] White Brock MLA, BC liberal Tracy readies is going to become the new CEO of science world, which is something I think everyone on this show thinks is really cool, but it means Surrey white rock will be having possibly a by-election, uh, she’ll officially resigned on it August 30th or August 31st. And the byelection will have to be, I think it’s within six months of that.

[00:04:19] So it might take it into the early spring. This is a very strong, liberal writing. What do we think is going to happen? If anything?

[00:04:30] Scott de Lange Boom: Liberal hold

[00:04:34] Ian Bushfield: Jillian, any insights.

[00:04:36] Jillian Stead: Yeah, I mean, so I spoke to an NDP insider about this earlier today and they said, uh, you know, look, the NDP is under no illusions that this is a winnable. At this point in time. So, I mean, I do have that piece of, until there, but I think on a personal level, um, so I actually, uh, was around at the BC liberal party as the communications manager when we nominated Tracy readies.

[00:04:58] And it was a really exciting moment for the party because she was a really different candidate than, um, some of the ones that we were nominating at the time. Some of the ones that you might expect from the BC liberal party and. I have to say she is one of those people who is a really compelling individual.

[00:05:13] She’s very kind, she’s very intelligent. She’s very competent. Um, you know, she had a similar quality to Christie bark in that. She’s one of those people that can make you feel really important who can make you feel really heard. And like you’re the only person in a one kilometer radius. So I would say a massive loss, not only for the BC liberals, but I think also for British Colombians in general and you know, a whole generation of women who, you know, might.

[00:05:37] Uh, have really enjoyed seeing Tracy ready to, in my opinion, was sort of a front venture in the wings. Um, so, you know, I think that that’s okay. That’s really regrettable. I think it’s absolutely science world’s game. Uh, you know, they’re doing some pretty cool things right now. Maybe it’s the whole dr.

[00:05:54] Bonnie Henry, the world needs more nerds cats. Okay. Maybe that compared, yeah. Ready to go over there. Um, but I think from a strategic standpoint, a communication standpoint, There’s two really interesting things that stand out for me with this piece of news. Um, one it’s the timing this falls one week after John Horgan, you know, slowly started socializing the, uh, the idea of an early election.

[00:06:19] I think the other thing is, is in her interview with Rob Shaw. Very telling that she said, thank you. And sort of her goodbye remarks or reflection remarks to sort of the Carol James is of the world, um, failed to mention the actual leader of the parties. So I do think that’s really telling, uh, from a communications perspective, it’ll be really interesting to see how the BC liberals manage that moving forward.

[00:06:43] Ian Bushfield: Stuart, do you think it’s fortuitous that raid after there’s musing of a provincial election and. BC liberal jumped ship.

[00:06:53] Stewart Prest: Um, I mean, it is, it is interesting. And you, you do have to wonder whether it says something about just how, how liberals are feeling, uh, with the prospect of a potential election looming that perhaps there’s a little less, uh, enthusiasm for this.

[00:07:07] The party is a, um, it’s. I mean, a fair to say is not where it was a few years ago in terms of strength and, uh, and, and, uh, the, the NDP under Oregon in the midst of this pandemic. And we’re going to get to this in a few minutes, I think, but there’s a sense that this is about as good a place as Andy B has been in for awhile.

[00:07:25] And so you might see a couple of other liberals looking for, for other options. I mean, it may be just a strong wind. It’s a bit early to tell, but, but it’s, it’s something to watch for sure. And, uh, Um, the idea of getting used to elections again is an interesting one, right? We have an all these different, uh, as, uh, facets of life, uh, this idea where we’re kind of re acquainting ourselves with some kind of new normal, and we just heard the announcement and NBC about what.

[00:07:52] But going back to school might look like for K to 12 and as a father of a six and eight year old, that’s the news I was watching closely, but here we were getting used to perhaps the idea of what an election might look like. And so if we see a, we see a race play out, uh, in the new year or not, it might give us a sense of what a, what a, an early election might look like in the medium term for the problems as a whole.

[00:08:14] Yeah,

[00:08:14] Scott de Lange Boom: that’s an excellent point election species going to have a challenge on his hands. If we actually do do a full general election in the fall. So having a test run of a biologic tend to work out all the kinks of a pandemic voting system would probably not be a bad

[00:08:33] Ian Bushfield: idea. It’s weird. It took me until like, A couple of weeks ago until I finally signed up for all of the press releases from the government of BC doing this podcast for almost four years.

[00:08:43] And I just wasn’t getting them because I hadn’t signed up cause anyone can sign up for them. And one of the things that came out of this last week is elections. BC has released their election readiness and COVID plan their strategy. And some of the things they’ll be looking at around, you know, postal ballots, physical distancing it.

[00:09:02] Uh, in-person things reducing touch consoles. If you have to sign your name or something like that. So they’ve already thought of it. And I think they released it almost on it might’ve even been on the same day. Oregon was musing about an election, which was just kind of funny and unfortunate timing, but clearly they’d been thinking about it for a while.

[00:09:20] Uh, at least we don’t have politicians in this country talking about just canceling a federal election or an election because of, uh, voter fraud and everything else. But that’s America. Okay.

[00:09:33] Stewart Prest: Counsel the election. So we know what’s going on. Not a great. Excellent for a democracy to be, but it does actually get out of this.

[00:09:39] There is a bit of a bind where we are in a space in which we are trying to avoid unnecessary risks. And yet as a democracy, we want also to be in a place where we can hold government to account. It’s crucial that we can do that on a, on a regular basis. Does that mean we are in a minority situation. So when an election could happen literally any time, but just about any time.

[00:10:01] And, uh, and so we’re there, there’s this balancing of risks and readiness, right? Um, it’s, uh, yeah, it’s a strange sort of place for a democracy to be in. And I think it’s, it’s entirely appropriate for elections, Canada to, or sorry, elections BC to be, be thinking about what an election should look like. And, and if we have a, uh, A by-election to practice some of these.

[00:10:22] I think that that is actually, uh, healthy for the province, but, uh, the question of a general election for the province is a different thing entirely.

[00:10:31] Ian Bushfield: Yeah. This is unlikely to be a big change by election. Historically governments don’t do well in BC by elections. Uh, the MVP has picked up the occasional weird seat in the by-election like Chillowak hope, but I mean, this is a seat that’s got, I think like a 35 point gap, uh, The liberals have been drooping a little bit over the last few elections, but they’re still taking, I think a plurality or almost a small majority of the vote.

[00:10:59] They’re so unlikely to be very exciting. So we’ll still stay at that Razor’s edge. The other news that came out in this past week is the BC green race has grown by 50%. There is now cam brewer, a lawyer and academic who has joined the race. Uh, he’s a teacher, a teacher at SFU. I believe his initial plan form is very focused on environmentalist them unsurprisingly for agreeing.

[00:11:26] Um, but I think we have seen the BC greens try to broaden a bit and how I read his initial focus is coming back to a bit more of the, I don’t know, environmental focus on it, but he does talk about guaranteed income, um, affordable housing and some of the other things that the greens have been talking about.

[00:11:46] I don’t know. I think it’s still Sonia first announce to lose, but we’ll definitely have cam on the podcast so we can claim to have had an interview with every green leadership candidate at the provincial level, at least.

[00:11:57] Scott de Lange Boom: Yeah. So there’s been rumors for weeks now about a third person entering the race and I just, we finally see what it is.

[00:12:08] Stewart Prest: Yeah.

[00:12:08] Jillian Stead: I mean, I, I think he’s an, uh, by all means, uh, like on paper, his resumes, very impressive. Uh, you know, an Aboriginal lawyer, I think, you know, an SFU professor as well, or some sort of an instructor there. Um, but I think it’s going to take a lot more than a good resume to stand out right now. And I think, you know, I, I agree with Ian.

[00:12:25] Assessment. I think Sonia first now, again, going back to 2017, um, even before that, around the, uh, Shawnigan Lake issue, I remember watching her from, you know, the government sidelines and going that this person is a serious threat. This person has real, um, clout with the grassroots. So it’ll be really interesting to see if she can transform that grassroots power that she has to a more provincial level.

[00:12:50] And I have to say at this point in time, I still think she has that advantage.

[00:12:54] Stewart Prest: I think being an incumbent, being a, um, having demonstrated that she can win as a huge thing for the green party where they just, they can’t take that for granted in any, any, uh, district in the, in the province. And so that, that is a, an enormous advantage for, or for personnel and the, the, the, the party.

[00:13:12] It will be interesting to see how this was raised because the party is clearly at the crossroads, anytime a leader departs just about by definition, but here we have a green party. It has something of a regional presence on the, on the Island, but, but not much else beyond that. So it’s. Really a question of, well, what is this?

[00:13:29] What does this green party stand for? Is it going to be trying to find a middle space on the left right spectrum between, uh, the liberals and the NDP? Is it going to try to really double down on environmental specific issues is what, what, what is this party going to be? Because it clearly has residents.

[00:13:45] It can command attention as that third party in the province, but where does it go from here? And I’m. Hoping to hear some of those answers from, from the different candidate, uh, the different candidates. And, uh, and we’ll have to, uh, have to, as Jillian says here, more than just resumes your plan for each of them, uh, from each of the candidates for the party, it will be interesting to watch in that regard.

[00:14:05] It was

[00:14:05] Ian Bushfield: definitely interesting to see in the past week, the BC greens and animals, and take like specific targets that some of the government’s agenda, uh, they stuck. You know, they take credit for stalling, the, uh, bill 12, I think it is the one around, um, putting

[00:14:24] Jillian Stead: bill 17 and 22.

[00:14:25] Ian Bushfield: Okay. 22, 22. So when I think, I think I’m, I think I am thinking of, um, the one around, uh, stabilization care, putting youth who are admitted with addictions issues and serious issues into hospital, into some kind of involuntary.

[00:14:43] Um, positions, uh, and the green said there’s a lot of issues with the, uh, BC civil liberties and many others have raised questions about it. And then the other is this independent power producer amendments that the NDP was changing, where there’s actually a lot of green support for this idea. It was a BC liberal push in the first place, but the NDP was trying to tweak it and suggest how, um, these small power producers could sell.

[00:15:11] Uh, electricity across the province and across the continent and animals and said, there hadn’t been enough consultation with indigenous communities and notably a number of first nations do run these kinds of projects. So an interesting move, uh, entered, we were in notably came out and blasted them for not, uh, operating in good faith and no surprises with the government, but it might just be a difference in a difference in strategy, I guess, between the two leaders or difference in style.

[00:15:42] Stewart Prest: The fact that we’re in year three matters as well, right there. We’re coming to the end of this, this government and the next year or two. And so the greens are going to have to make a decision. At some point, they can’t really enter into an election being the helpful, helpful supporters of the NDP is can’t just say, well, we were here to really help out the NDP.

[00:15:59] There has to be some way to it’s daylight. And so Olsen is doing some of that. And, and each of the leaders I assume, are, you’re going to find ways to do that as well. The greens have to have a reason to exist.

[00:16:14] Ian Bushfield: Well, let’s pivot a little bit to a more national discussion. We might come back to leadership races cause the conservatives are still in one. And the federal greens are in one where the only news that I hear about is like people being kicked out for being racist, which is not the leadership race, where I expected that to happen.

[00:16:32] The question I kind of want to start with. Here is how are the various politicians doing in this pandemic? Um, we’ll start very tangibly and then get to the broader questions about politics. And has it changed more generally? Um, Anytime there’s a crisis we expect, I think to see a bit of a leadership glow, whether it’s John Horgan or Doug Ford people will look fondly upon the person who’s in office during a pandemic.

[00:17:05] Um, it seems like this has worked out well for John Horgan, but not for Jason Kenney and decreasingly. So for, uh, Justin Trudeau, but that’s more to do with we than anything else.

[00:17:20] Scott de Lange Boom: Yeah. Well, if you’d asked me a week ago, I would have said Sean harden was AC moon. Uh, in the past week, there’s been a couple, uh, goof ups, the leadership, or sorry, the election speculation, I think kind of took everyone off of let’s all rally around the flight and think about how we stop this pandemic to, Oh, look, politics is back again.

[00:17:43] And we have an election to think about, and also the. Well, the Americans are just get out of their cars. If they’re here or people with out of province plate, shouldn’t be driving, which I kind of remember back in the start of this pandemic, when the message from the leadership was we shouldn’t be scapegoating people who were perceived to be from out elsewhere for the pandemic.

[00:18:10] Jillian Stead: Yeah, I would agree with the assessment that, uh, you know, I, I, I do too think that John Horgan really has ASIS. And I think if you look at it comparatively to some of the other leaders that you’ve just mentioned, uh, Jason Kenney comes to mind. It really comes down to the positioning. So, uh, I would say that John Horgan really truly did take a back seat, particularly at the beginning of this.

[00:18:32] And he really let the leadership of dr. Bonnie Henry leads. Uh, and of course we saw Adrian Dix really step up. And while I have to say, you know, as somebody who worked for the BC liberal party, um, and who has campaign against Adrian Dix, what an incredible job for this man he has done, I think a really exceptional job as a health minister.

[00:18:52] Um, you know, absolutely stunning me with his ability to answer, you know, some pretty tough questions. In both official languages, which has been really cool. I think his social media game, uh, that his staff, uh, you know, tweet out really compassionate tone that he’s taken. I think that that’s a massive difference because if you actually look at the public appearances that John Horgan has done, they have been a lot less frequent than say a Jason Kenney or a Doug Ford.

[00:19:18] So I also think that that’s another really big difference.

[00:19:23] Stewart Prest: Yep. I think that’s a, uh, that’s a big part of it, but there is something about the, the politics of, of the province as a whole. That seems like it’s helping BCS response, right. Where there is a pretty broad consensus about what needs to happen to you.

[00:19:37] And I think the liberals get. Some credit for that as well that there isn’t a, we haven’t found a sort of fights picked over this issue or that issue. There was a, uh, pretty quick coming together around this is broadly the outlines of what DC needs to do, uh, in order to respond to this. And then, so we’ve had, the focus has been on the executive because, because it’s a lot of action or it’s not a, there’s been a few major pieces of legislation at the federal provincial level, but it’s mostly trying to stay on top of things.

[00:20:03] And so we see the attention placed on. On the civil service on, uh, dr. Henry and, uh, and the ministers we’re speaking on behalf of, of the executive in that regard. And so it seems like, uh, and, and then at the same time we have the, uh, both the greens and, and the liberals, not just opposing for the sake of opposition and I think that’s to their credit.

[00:20:23] So we have a consensus point of view, and we sort of hinted at this a couple of times, but the moment we moved to an election footing, If there were to be a near early election, um, I’m genuinely concerned that some of that is just going to evaporate like on election has to be about something and in the middle of a pandemic, it’s probably going to be partly about the pandemic.

[00:20:40] And so the, that provincial advantage that BC seems to have enjoyed a relative consensus, uh, I, that may, that may have to operate in the context of an election.

[00:20:56] Ian Bushfield: It’s yeah. The one day of sitting in mid March when they had two emergency pass, a couple of bills and they managed to do it with, I think it was 12 people in the legislature in total. And I watched Mo pretty much that whole session. And there was like a question period, but it was, I think the first time that we’re like, You know, nonpartisan, but serious questions and like real answers to those concerns.

[00:21:24] I was like, that was really nice. Yeah. I get that. I get that. It’s valuable to have our oppositional politics and to have some push and some accountability. But just that moment, everyone in that house Rose to the occasion. And I think there was one or two more MLS there and absolutely needed to be the, I think the quorum was 10 and they had 12 or 13 because there was probably someone who’s like, I need to show up because I want to show up and you’re like, okay.

[00:21:51] Fine. But for the most part, they all did work together. You know, they passed a bill, the liberals kept off their major criticisms and they started to try to find some angles because at some point, if they don’t criticize, they fade into irrelevance. And if Horian does pull an early election or even if there’s an election next year, you know, I know I’ve heard a lot of people who are otherwise sympathetic to the liberals go.

[00:22:18] This isn’t the scary socialist government. I thought it was going to be, they seem largely competent and it is a time when we need more social spending. So maybe let them go. And that’s quite the uphill battle for Andrew Wilkinson to have to face

[00:22:35] Scott de Lange Boom: wait uphill battle for any leader to face the fact that every Wilkinson has trouble connecting outside of a boardroom.

[00:22:42] Doesn’t really help that.

[00:22:45] Ian Bushfield: Oh, my God, that last video I saw of, I think it was one of the candidate announcements and the candidate was fine. I think it was the candidate for West Capitol ano um, who’s replacing Ralph Selten and she was fine, but then there were a couple of shots of, well, considering everyone, he looked like a robot and it was just like state.

[00:23:03] He was like picking up a baby and you’re like, don’t, he seems like he’s a smart, nice, good. You know, honest guy about this thing, but just, he doesn’t have that sincerity. And so maybe he just shouldn’t be out hiking in his videos. He should be in front of a boardroom

[00:23:21] Scott de Lange Boom: that might just be as natural habitat back in 2005.

[00:23:25] When, uh, you know, air force was doing constant Stephen, Harper’s a robot jokes and that didn’t stop him from winning.

[00:23:33] Stewart Prest: Yeah.

[00:23:35] Jillian Stead: Oh, sorry.

[00:23:37] Scott de Lange Boom: I was just going to conclude with that. That’s that? So after 13 years of liberal government, that was standard prawns, so slightly different situation.

[00:23:45] Jillian Stead: Yeah. And I think, you know, I I full disclosure.

[00:23:49] I voted for welcome as a leader, I volunteered some time on his campaign. I do think that there is a public perception issue. I also think that on top of the uphill battle, there’s a messaging conversation that needs to happen with the BC liberal party. I actually, before this podcast went into the 2017 platform, I went into the 2013 platform.

[00:24:11] I went into the 2009 platform. And there is a phrase that you see over and over again on those pages. And that is the decade of doom. The decade of decline, the scary nineties, that narrative, this will be the first election. Whenever it happens, it will be the first election where they can no longer play that.

[00:24:30] They can no longer play that card. They need to come up with a new narrative because gone are the days where the public is concerned. About five straight consecutive balanced budgets, I think to your point, Ian, um, this is now a time where we need to look after each other. I know one of the things we’re going to talk about a little bit later is the question of big government.

[00:24:49] Um, So the BC liberals really, I think from a messaging standpoint, are going to have to do a lot of soul searching to come up with what that new narrative looks like. Uh, and it’s gotta be something completely different than what they’re used to.

[00:25:02] Ian Bushfield: It’s funny when the BC NDP was first in and for their first, I dunno, it was like a year, maybe even two and a half years.

[00:25:10] Every third word they said was 16 years. And they just kept harking back to, you know, the years of the BC liberals. And like, they cut this and they cut that, and this is a mess because of them. They can probably run some of that messaging. Like you don’t want to go back to that this time around. Uh, but you know, these messages have a short shelf life.

[00:25:32] Eventually you have to run on your own record. Yeah.

[00:25:35] Jillian Stead: I knew ideas, frankly. Um, so that’s another thing. Hmm.

[00:25:40] Scott de Lange Boom: Yeah. The liberal party does not seem to. You’ve done a great job of idea generation in the past a couple of years.

[00:25:50] Stewart Prest: I mean, that is something that you often see with parties that are in office for a long period of time.

[00:25:55] They have trouble finding a leader to, to can you continue on with a lot of energy with, with new ideas, just because they they’ve used up a lot of their good ideas in previous, uh, previous, previous governments. And I think, uh, the, the liberals. In BC are facing some of the same challenges that the conservatives are federally in some ways they’re very different parties, but when it comes to say, I’m trying to balance environment and, and, uh, economic development type issues where, uh, to, to, to have is a very strong voice for development of economic resources in the province, but also too, to signal to voters in more urban settings that they’re really going to take environmental.

[00:26:33] Yes, she was seriously, this is a human enormous challenge for the conservatives and federally. And I don’t think they’ve figured it out yet, but, but it’s a bit of a challenge for the liberals as well, because they can, they can do well in a lot of the, um, the rural parts, parts of the problems and, and make appeals to being, uh, on top of, uh, economic issues and resource development issues.

[00:26:53] And they have a pretty good record at entrance championing those things, but, but that’s not necessarily going to be enough to get, uh, pick up the seats they need in places like the lower mainland. So you’re going to have. To give some more thought about how do you be a party of not early 21st century.

[00:27:06] We’re getting towards the, uh, the early, mid 21st century. And they’re gonna have to find a different identity. Isn’t

[00:27:11] it?

[00:27:11] Ian Bushfield: And the liberals were the ones who brought in the carbon tax and not just brought it in, but like built it in a way that no one could tear it down. So, you know, They have some credit to walk, walk on on the environment, but it kind of just stalled and they need to, like, Jillian, I think said has come up with new ideas and broaden it.

[00:27:30] But you mentioned the federal conservatives and then let’s talk briefly, federally Justin Trudeau. Huh? So. Justin Trudeau had somewhat of a glow around the federal handling of COVID-19. I think especially outside of BC, they got a lot more attention than the provincial ministers, except maybe Quebec where everyone was watching press all ago.

[00:27:59] Uh, who apparently also Rose to the occasion somehow. Um, I don’t know enough about Quebec politics to say more than that. How do you know, Trudeau’s his own worst enemy in every single situation and his single greatest strength at this point seems to be not having an effective opposition on any side.

[00:28:22] The NDP is a little bit stronger, but they’re still not. If there was another election today, I don’t think Singh would grow the party much beyond where it was. Maybe pick up a few more seats in BC and elsewhere, but. They wouldn’t get back to the Leighton or even the Mulcaire days. And the conservatives are in utter confused disarray, and it’s a leadership race, so that’s to be expected, but I don’t, I don’t know, will Peter McKay or O’Toole fix their systemic issues?

[00:28:54] Stewart Prest: We can, I don’t know if we can answer that question. It’s it’s hard to get a good read on this leadership race. Peter McKay seems to be going out of his way. Not. To make it a race at all and just to play out the clock. Right. It’s like watching a, um, uh, I don’t know. Do they still play basketball right now?

[00:29:10] They’re just, uh,

[00:29:12] Jillian Stead: you remember

[00:29:15] Stewart Prest: the MBA’s back. Maybe they’re going to, they’re starting off now and

[00:29:19] Scott de Lange Boom: never take her to last longer than the baseball season. Did.

[00:29:22] Stewart Prest: Uh, well, I mean, baseball, technically, it’s still going. Yeah. Yeah. Entire teams. Right? So gonna have an hour, the, this is like a strategy. My students used to get me off track, but uh, let’s talk some sports.

[00:29:35] And so the Jays, they don’t have a game to play this weekend cause they can’t, you’re not allowed to play against affiliates cause they have, they have the COVID. So, um, uh, but what I was going to say was, uh, just playing out the clock. Right. And we’re not really getting a sense of, uh, We get at the answer, uh, hotel would be yeah, a little more in touch with some of the, uh, the, the, the grassroots elements of the conservatives, a little more abrasive and style and so on.

[00:29:59] And, uh, yeah, beyond that, those, the fundamental challenge is that the conservative party really has to grapple with you. Can’t you can’t run up, uh, um, The scorpion in Alberta and Saskatchewan, and just not show up in an urban centers and hope to, to cover in Canada and in this, this era. And so, uh, there are questions that they have to answer there and we’re just not getting a sense of them.

[00:30:20] And I think some of the policies that they’re introducing, so tool has an environmental policy, which I think is worth a look at. It’s not, um, it’s not getting a lot of scrutiny, but, but it. We’re just, we don’t know what the party is going to look like coming out of this. And so the, I mean, Trudeau is, it is lucky and it is also in some ways being done a disservice allowing himself to be his own worst enemy, as you mentioned.

[00:30:44] And because there isn’t a, a very strong voice in opposition to him right now. And so he’s, he’s filling in the gap by being in his eye, his own strongest opponent right now. And, and just stepping on a rake after, right.

[00:30:53] Scott de Lange Boom: Ashley’s first there hasn’t been more discussion within the conservative leadership race on how they actually win.

[00:31:00] There was that vacay comment before you even wrote, started his campaign about how the social conservative issues didn’t need to be brought up in the election and were an albatross around their necks when they’re trying to win. And, uh, like you just said, Aero tools, put out some stuff about needing a better environmental platform, but that’s been about it.

[00:31:23] Being surprisingly little discussion about what is actually going to take to not just run up the storyboard at rural Saskatchewan,

[00:31:32] Ian Bushfield: how many, uh, elections do you have to lose before your leadership race is actually about that question? Cause I feel like the first one or two are just all the factions in the party trying to like Curry favor and settle scores.

[00:31:46] And then it’s, you know, maybe the third race. I don’t think that was necessarily true of the BC liberals case, but you know, the,

[00:31:57] Jillian Stead: the advice I always gave him it’s too, baby it’s too. But, uh, I guess if you have an extra lifeline, maybe three, but, uh, that’s the, that’s the rule I always give out to clients, you know, a lot of people, uh, don’t follow that advice, but that’s, in my opinion, that’s how many shots you have.

[00:32:16] Uh, I, uh, I’m incredibly bored by this conservative race. I think it’s, you know, for talking about a lack on Trudeau side will not as their bad luck on this conservative race side. Uh, I do not look at these candidates and I do not see anybody who I think again, if we’re going to talk about new ideas, I don’t see any real new ideas.

[00:32:34] And I think further to your point, if there are any, they’re certainly not being talked about, they have what, less than a month ago until that vote. Um, I don’t expect anything to really change on the national stage. After this, I find it to be a very underwhelming race.

[00:32:50] Ian Bushfield: At least we’re not talking about supply management,

[00:32:54] Jillian Stead: whatever happened to that guy,

[00:32:57] Ian Bushfield: let’s not talk about him.

[00:33:00] So

[00:33:02] Scott de Lange Boom: in theory, the leader of the opposition to be at least slightly more effective, but that’s only because the bar was set so low by Andrew Scheer can really only go up.

[00:33:14] Jillian Stead: Yeah,

[00:33:16] Stewart Prest: that might actually be one of the reasons why the conservatives are having more trouble having that larger conversation, because it’s pretty easy to say, man, Andrew sheer really.

[00:33:25] He left, uh, you know, he left, left some, uh, so some points on the field. I don’t know what kind of a metaphor, a reason now, but he’s, he, he, um, he had a chance in any kind of blew it and, and, uh, there was an election winning for them taking. And so if, if that’s true, you accept that premise. Then the conservatives don’t need to, uh, to retool.

[00:33:45] They don’t need to, to reimagine themselves. They just need to execute better. And I think that’s partly where the. The party or some of the thinking in the party landed. And so, uh, don’t, don’t go for a larger reinvention if we just need to, uh, yeah. It make it. Make, Hey, we’re in the possibility, uh, possibilities are there when, when true.

[00:34:04] Don’t make some mistakes, just make sure we, we, uh, capitalize on it and we don’t, uh, um, you know, when, uh, there, there are multiple photos of the prime minister appearing in Brown face. You make sure you win that election because that’s, uh, that’s, uh, that’s an opportunity that the. A vendor. And as a result, I think the party does have these larger issues, these fundamental, controversial contradictions that they haven’t resolved, but you might overlook them.

[00:34:28] If you think that you just sort of, you know, you’re mr. You, mr. First opportunity.

[00:34:34] Ian Bushfield: Well, looking beyond Canada, even worth talking about some of the, you know, the other bigger stories, I mean, America is such a mess. Like the history of this podcast is we started right around, right in the midst of the 26, 2016 U S federal election.

[00:34:51] And I think we did our test episode, like a post debate watching party, where we just shot the shit about Trump bill Clinton, and then things went bad and have just continually gone bad for three and a half, almost four years now. How does Biden Biden not screw this up? And what happens? Like what happens in November?

[00:35:18] Are we optimistic that things will go smoothly and they’ll return to a little less

[00:35:25] Stewart Prest: terrible

[00:35:26] Ian Bushfield: soon?

[00:35:30] Stewart Prest: No. Now things aren’t going to go smoothly. Um, what we are the U S is in a, a prolonged cycle of, you can call it contentious politics if you like, but, uh, where there are fundamental disagree agreements about, uh, what politics is for and even the rules of the game. And, uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s a strange facet of the American political system where the rules of the game are.

[00:35:56] Are are part of the spoils of the game, where if you are in control of state legislatures, you have a, a great deal of control over the way in which elections play out. And so we see this, um, uh, the, the real possibility that is not going to play out in a, in a way that’s completely free and fair in every, every state in the union.

[00:36:13] And that’s. No, that’s not a comfortable place for the country to be in. And on top of that, when you have the president, we’re still in the, it’s not even done July. And the president is tweeting about the possibility of delaying an election and the possibility that it’s going to be a fraudulent election.

[00:36:30] And so we’re just having a table set for, what’s going to be a potentially terrifying November. I got to say.

[00:36:38] Scott de Lange Boom: Yeah chance that he doesn’t accept the outcome of the election. And it’s an outcome that looks increasingly certain

[00:36:47] Stewart Prest: to be him losing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Is it, I mean, if we, if we trust the polls, do you trust Paul’s anymore and American presidential polls, like a

[00:36:56] Scott de Lange Boom: 10 point gap?

[00:36:58] Yeah. Even with the margin of error, it’s pretty clear that fighting’s winning.

[00:37:03] Stewart Prest: Right. Biden is wedding comfortably. Now I think we can be comfortable with that kind of kind of assessment, but there’s this, um, I mean, things can happen. The race can tighten. There will be scrutiny, abide ongoing, and this is, these are just things that happen during an American lash.

[00:37:18] And so the, the, the margin for error shrinks, and if there are a number of jurisdictions where the race is not. Come with me of the election or irregularities in the election. That’s there are there, there are reasons to too, I don’t know, not relaxed anyways. And, um, even if Trump goes away and kind of grumbling the fact that the.

[00:37:39] The society is so polarized. Some of his supporters might not accept the result either. Right? So we have that, uh, that dynamic as well. So, uh, Trump may eventually walk off the stage or not have the mic taken from him because there are institutions within, uh, the U S we have seen, we have seen, uh, democracy continue on, but, uh, but it, it is going to be a contentious process.

[00:38:03] I think. Nate

[00:38:06] Jillian Stead: silver in 2016 on his podcast. And, uh, they basically, he had a panel of very qualified people, very smart people. And they sat there and I kid you not, they basically conceded to the fact that it was a foregone conclusion that Hillary Clinton would win that election. It was one of the hate to use the word again, but most underwhelming.

[00:38:26] Podcasts that I listened to because they were so, so smug with themselves and so complacent. And so, you know, just really designed to the fact they had already accepted the results. And of course, what did we see that night? Well, that’s, we’d be having a very different conversation today, but I also think guys, there’s another thing you need to look at and not as campaigning.

[00:38:45] Campaigning in the age of pandemics in America, it’s going to look very, very, very different. This time around gone are the days where you can with good conscience, hold those massive rallies where you sell out those huge stadiums. Trump can do it because he’s put all of his eggs in the basket that this thing is curable.

[00:39:04] It’s going away. They’ve got a handle on it. Biden has a much harder time trying to pur trying to convince people to come out to those stadiums. That is part of his value. Um, so you’ve got to look at it like that. People are going to be less inclined to open their doors, door, knocking, being a huge piece of this.

[00:39:22] The Democrats really rely on that grassroots vote. Polling. Those votes in those neighborhoods is going to be a whole lot harder. This time around digital campaigning is going to be huge, not only digital campaigning, uh, you know, from the official party, but from those super packs as well. That’s going to be massive.

[00:39:40] They’re going to have to be really on point with their targeting really on point with our message. Right? The last thing I will say, and I’m a digital strategist. I live and breathe this stuff. This, uh, social media landscape is going to look very different than the last time around. Uh, Facebook has the heat on it.

[00:39:56] At this point in time, they are going to be on both sides of the fence, including those packs under way more scrutiny than they’re used to Facebook. You know, I work for clean energy clients where I can’t even say. That a client who has solar, hydro and wind power and their diverse portfolio that is flagged now by Facebook as a political issue.

[00:40:18] So these guys are gonna have a lot harder of a time campaigning this time around those dirty tricks are going to be a lot harder to pull. And so I think it’s going to be a fascinating exercise to watch just purely from a polling votes and campaigning perspective.

[00:40:32] Stewart Prest: Thank God.

[00:40:32] Ian Bushfield: On that note, I’ve tried like running ads for the podcast.

[00:40:37] In the past year, and it’s so annoying to get yourself verified, to run them, which I’ve done, and then link that to your pages, which I’ve done for some, but it fails on others. And then Facebook doesn’t want my money as all I’ve concluded. And I think that’s largely because I want to give them like 20 or 50 bucks instead of like 20,000 or 50,000.

[00:41:01] And so they’re

[00:41:01] Jillian Stead: like the cares. I try and give them the 20,000 and they don’t want it either. You know, all I’m saying is solar, hydro and wind highly at this

[00:41:09] Ian Bushfield: point in time, according to Facebook, And they’ll give you cancer, right? Okay. Let’s switch gears. Given the time to some of the bigger picture questions, let’s talk political science, let’s talk pandemics and let’s talk how things are changing far more broadly.

[00:41:27] We’ve talked specifically about some of the shifts towards more cooperation here in BC. And some of that predated the pandemic, arguably just by the nature of having a minority government, but. Do we see? I mean, the question is just, has politics fundamentally changed? At least the politics we’ve been talking about British Columbia, Canada, a bit of well Western world, or are we expecting things to kind of just drift back to the mean longer term?

[00:41:59] Stewart Prest: Well, I think some things are changing and then some things not so much, like we’ve seen with, uh, issues like the, the we controversy federally and, uh, and the, the, um, initial usings about an early election. We can see how we can fall back into old rhythms of politics, uh, uh, fairly quickly. And that’s not entirely a bad thing, right.

[00:42:20] Holding government to account for. Irregular spending decisions that that is something we want to see happen in a democracy, the, the readiness to, to have an election when one is called for that’s a minute, you want to be able to see it in a democracy. But the idea that, um, there are significant projects that government has to undertake on our behalf and that we can actually come to an agreement on how to undertake those.

[00:42:43] That’s an idea that, uh, we have seen. Proven again, this is a, if you want to take those up to the long view, longest view, uh, uh, government in, um, in the 20th century for a time, there was, uh, a pretty broad enthusiasm for what government could do, what could accomplish and coming out of, uh, the great depression.

[00:43:04] The second world war government was instrumental in recovery and doing big things in and organizing and insignificant aspects of the entire economy. And, uh, And so there was a enthusiasm for government government’s ability to, to solve some kinds of it, of major problems and that waned over time. And we saw increasing emphasis on a, on a more individualistic approach in the eighties and nineties and so on.

[00:43:25] And so I think we’re seeing that the pendulum is swinging back a little bit here to this idea of that we’re all in this together. And there are things we need to accomplish collectively as a society. And a government is a place where reorganize those efforts. That’s one of the key. Central reasons that exist.

[00:43:40] And so that, that affirmation of a collective projects and a collective of ability to, to do things right, that’s been a reaffirm somewhat and not everywhere. Not to the same extent. I don’t think that’s the way in which the story gets told in the United States, for instance, but, but here at NBC into a significant extent, I think at the federal level, that’s, that’s one of the stories of the pandemic.

[00:44:05] Jillian Stead: Yeah.

[00:44:05] Scott de Lange Boom: So back in March, there was basically two types of articles that media was putting out. There was a, Oh my God, this is what’s happening now. And then there was the, this changes everything article and probably about 95% of them are wrong, but it’s hard to say what that 5% that is going to be right.

[00:44:27] Is,

[00:44:27] Stewart Prest: but

[00:44:28] Scott de Lange Boom: like overall, I think pretty much all the predictions

[00:44:31] Stewart Prest: about.

[00:44:32] Scott de Lange Boom: This is going to be a permanent change part going to come true, but there will be a small set

[00:44:37] Stewart Prest: that will,

[00:44:40] Jillian Stead: so Ian’s question was around. Do we think that this kind of dynamic is going to change politics? I’m not going to answer that question.

[00:44:47] Will this pandemic change people’s values and the way that they vote? Aye. I I’m hopeful that it does. I mean, I’m thinking about politics now, uh, and issues, um, uh, completely different than I did in say March. Um, you know, gone are the days where we have these advocacy groups going to government and saying, you need to raise the welfare rate.

[00:45:11] You need to, um, consider whatever. Minimum basic income could look like and they said, you’re crazy. That’s never going to happen. It’s not doable. It’s not possible. Well, we’ve just proven that that’s all possible at this point in time. So what is it going to take for the voting population increasingly more, you know, Lenneal minded people as we become the biggest, uh, in this country, what is it going to take for us to see.

[00:45:35] Finally say enough is enough, that old way was not working for us. And we demand something different, something that’s more equitable, something that works for us. I think similarly around climate change, it was always, you know, we’ve got to do this slowly. We’ve got to do this slowly. You know, anything that we do, isn’t really going to result in meaningful change.

[00:45:53] Well, we stopped flying planes for a couple of months and all of a sudden you could see. See you through the Los Angeles Valley, you could see through the bottom of Venice, you could see through Tehran and Shanghai and everything was all of a sudden clear. We’ve now proven that there are things that we can be doing to lower our missions.

[00:46:11] So I’m really curious to see. What people take away from this pie pandemic, things that they always told us could not be done. It wasn’t possible. Um, I wonder how much people are going to put pressures on governments to say, we know it’s possible now you need to do something. And I truly hope that that is the case.

[00:46:29] I hope I’m right. Um, that’s what I’m really going to be looking for. At the other side of all of this,

[00:46:35] there

[00:46:35] Ian Bushfield: was such a, like, Feeling or sense, at least for me very early on in that March, April period that, Oh, this is the point when anything is possible, like it turns out, Oh, you actually can bring policy in, in a matter of weeks and it doesn’t take years now.

[00:46:54] Often it’s better. Like the Serb had a bunch of holes and needed to be plugged and redone a bunch of times, but that was a big program to roll out really fast. And BC did a number of things as well. And so I

[00:47:08] Jillian Stead: would say the seniors care, seniors care is a really good accomplishment. We can’t be doing that kind of stuff.

[00:47:15] No, no, no, no. It was always the default. And then all of a sudden. When push came to shove, that’s what was, you know, that’s what we were able to implement and that we are a much better as a society because of that. I would

[00:47:27] Ian Bushfield: argue. I totally agree. And that was, you know, March and April by may, it’s slowed down a little June kind of stalled in July now it’s suddenly like, especially I think maybe it’s also just the, we scandal is like really recent painting, like.

[00:47:44] No, actually the forces of how politics has been are very strong and the keep the status quo going is such a like desire among, I don’t want to say a political class, but just among like

[00:47:59] Stewart Prest: your

[00:47:59] Ian Bushfield: ocracy Laurentian elite, for sure. You know, basically everyone in Ottawa, the Ottawa bubble, let’s complain about them.

[00:48:08] We’re on the West coast. We can do that. But there is a desire I think, to not do too much too fast. And we’re in a time when we need to do a lot and we have done a lot, but, you know, can we keep that progress going? Can we look at things differently? Um, hopefully,

[00:48:32] Jillian Stead: no, I truly do hope so. Yeah,

[00:48:35] Scott de Lange Boom: I think there will be more of that.

[00:48:37] And there was already, I think, of a movement towards that. Uh, so back in, I think it was January, uh, Tyler Cowen, a new American economist with a fairly libertarian outlook. Who’s at least influential in those circles. Uh, did a big, you know, State capacity libertarianism. He called it a

[00:49:01] Stewart Prest: post about how

[00:49:03] Scott de Lange Boom: it’s time for the libertarians to realize that you need state capacity to do somethings to further overall Liberty.

[00:49:11] Hey, like

[00:49:11] Stewart Prest: that was

[00:49:13] Scott de Lange Boom: fairly proficient with everything that happened, but like those circles I think, had be moving in that direction already. And this is just accelerated

[00:49:21] Stewart Prest: that.

[00:49:24] Ian Bushfield: I mean, the other big change thing that has really changed is like global politics in a way. And the way countries interact with one another. I mean, I don’t think you or I, Scott at least had ever thought we would be okay with let alone, possibly happy to see borders close. I think we’re both very broadly like internationalists and cosmopolitan in that way.

[00:49:49] And. Fewer borders is generally better, but suddenly it’s like, no, keep, keep the toxins out. Keep the bad stuff out. Especially when some countries are just out of control. But, yeah,

[00:50:07] Jillian Stead: it’s, it’s keep the bad stuff out, but it’s also like keep control of what we can within. Like, I think that you will see this big, or we already are seeing this big shift to nationalism.

[00:50:18] Um, and I think I would agree with you and your leanings. Before now, before all of this happened, but now I am starting to think about, you know, how can we look more internally to sustain ourselves and to set ourselves up for success and to have that, um, supply chain have, you know, full sight of it and not.

[00:50:36] I have it, you know, crumble again at the next second way, pave or third wave or whatever horrible catastrophe happens next. I think that that’s also something we’re going to have to contend with in the years to come. I think there were already States that were already there. You know, I’m thinking about China and the U S in particular, but, uh, I think you’re starting to see a lot more of that even in the European union at this point in time.

[00:51:00] Stewart Prest: It will be difficult though, because Canada is still so, uh, and mashed in, in the American Oracle. Right? So we are in a world where there is not. There isn’t a single leader, uh, globally, so much of the last 70 years, the U S was a sort of central tent pole for the international community. And you wouldn’t necessarily agree with everything that it did, but it was a, uh, point around which the global political order was organized.

[00:51:27] And there, there just isn’t anything like that anymore. And yet we are still attached to the, the, the declining American, uh, um, Uh, but what would you, the sphere of influence? And so we’re where we were within that. And so we’re seeing Canada as being placed in awkward situations where we need to keep our borders open in some ways.

[00:51:48] So trade has to continue on because we just aren’t self sufficient. We are dependent on that, that interaction with the U S we are looking for ways to, to diversify, but the options are limited. That means we have to. Confront these difficult questions like does, does Canada want to do business with China?

[00:52:03] Given what is going on with regard to human rights in China? Right now, these are all difficult questions. And so Canada is having to chart its own direction, but also do so in a, in a, a world where, uh, there are, there are fewer real partners and, uh, yeah. Um, and we are, um, we’re a middle tier country. We can do some things, but we can’t, we can’t just go off on our own.

[00:52:25] Scott de Lange Boom: Yeah, we’re a small country and that’s going to make stuff like in supply chains back home,

[00:52:31] Stewart Prest: very difficult because

[00:52:33] Scott de Lange Boom: the specialization, the economy can have is directly proportional to the number of people and size of the market it serves. And yeah. With modern supply chains being so complex with so many parts moving into them.

[00:52:47] It’s going to be hard at 38 million. I think we’re up to now 37, uh, to do all of that domestically. And we’re going to have to be strategic about what

[00:52:59] Stewart Prest: we can onshore and

[00:53:01] Scott de Lange Boom: what’s

[00:53:02] Stewart Prest: not feasible

[00:53:05] Ian Bushfield: maybe just to close off our questions on politics and pandemics and things. Send a little more optimistically and then we’ll get self-indulgent and just take a couple of, or reflect a little on 200 episodes just before we close quickly.

[00:53:21] But to end optimistically what’s one thing going around the panel, you’re all looking forward to politically going forward, either big picture or even just little thing, whether it’s a byelection or a fundamental change in how people relate.

[00:53:40] Scott de Lange Boom: Not having to work. President Sweden at 5:00 AM. Okay.

[00:53:44] Ian Bushfield: Hopefully.

[00:53:48] Actually with how old Biden is that might still be an issue.

[00:53:51] Scott de Lange Boom: It doesn’t seem if there’s one thing fine has going for him is that he is completely unaware of what’s happened on Twitter and that’s to his strength

[00:54:01] Jillian Stead: for me, it’s to see a generation of AOL com. Into play, you know, like to me that, that, that is an incredibly exciting, um, moment in time to see a woman like her, that women, you know, my age older than me, younger than me look up to, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, you can look at her and respect her and, and like just, you know, Admire her hustle and admire who she is and what she’s doing for her country.

[00:54:32] Um, you know, I thought maybe we were going to talk a little bit more about the fall election and I was going to bring up the topic of, you know, the NDP may have this advantage, uh, going into the polls in British Columbia here. I said, I was going to say. Only if they can nominate some better candidates this time around that’s the opportunity I’m giving you free advice right now in DP.

[00:54:55] Like I honestly think that it for you guys to realize the opportunity you need to usher in a whole new brand of, I’m not saying you’re going to find it. Yeah. Seize left, right. And center, nor is that necessarily, um, appropriate for every writing here in British Columbia. Right. But I would love to see an era of young people who come in and drive their own social media, get out of their messaging box, inspire people.

[00:55:19] Talk a little bit bigger, a little bit less on the talking points. A little bit less about the boring things and just dream a little bit bigger. That’s my politics. And that’s what I’m really excited about. Maybe we won’t see it here in British Columbia, but I sure as hell hope that it happens sometime in Canada anywhere, really for that matter

[00:55:37] Ian Bushfield: more Bowen Maus.

[00:55:39] Okay. But her

[00:55:42] Jillian Stead: she’s. She’s fantastic. Yeah. No, I think she’s great. Totally. A hundred percent

[00:55:46] Stewart Prest: a

[00:55:46] Ian Bushfield: Stewart.

[00:55:48] Stewart Prest: Well, I think, um, it’s a cautious optimism. We’re having a bunch of conversations now that we didn’t really talk about. Uh, uh, prior to the last few years we seem to be, um, Uh, the politics is, is a bit more Mmm.

[00:56:09] But field at the moment where we can talk about issues that previously were, were, we did lip service to where we’re saying, well, you know, we want to have a, just like Jillian was talking about, well, we want to have a place for women in politics, but. Are we really going to do much about it, where we are confronting, um, issues around gender equality with movements like me too.

[00:56:29] We are confronting issues around, uh, uh, uh, racial equality quality with, uh, with, uh, black lives matter. And we’re having regular marches and protests and, and so. Um, younger Canadians more around the age that I’m teaching are, are much more likely to take up these issues and take them seriously. And then we’re seeing that conversation continue on.

[00:56:49] So it’s not just sort of dismissed as, as is thing that students talk about. And then when you get out on the real world, you figure out how things work. Now, those conversations are continuing on in the real world and they’re going to be uncomfortable. And it’s going to be contentious again to use the word, but, um, at least we’re talking about them.

[00:57:02] At least we are, uh, seeing some, uh, But some potential for movement as well, and in a broad variety of ways. And there’s not this feeling that we can only do so much at a time where you, a moment of politics, where we need to do a lot of things simultaneously. And so perhaps we’re going to be a little more, um, uh, Aggressive a little more adventurous and, uh, ambitious with our politics.

[00:57:27] That’s, that’s a hope. And I think it’s in the, in a sense our, our, our social conscience. And I think some of the people who were saying, getting involved in some of these issues on an issue by issue basis, they haven’t really, um, Made their way into the formal political process. And as a result of the political process, uh, the conversations are lagging behind where they are socially.

[00:57:46] And so I think there’s, there’s a bit of a disconnect and I would be hopeful that we see that that closed up where politicians are getting better at where maybe we just get different politicians who can talk about those issues a little more openly, a lot more,

[00:57:58] Ian Bushfield: frankly, I got the key example of that. And you basically said exactly what I was thinking Stewart, like the inspiration of the black lives matter protests recently, the entire.

[00:58:10] Way people can talk about politics has, I think changed at least outside the political sphere, but the kind of counter example of that is today. I think the estimates for the ministry of the solicitor general started in public safety. And you know, this is where you would think that given the societal discussions around defunding police and police budgets and stuff, there would be some hard hitting questions, but.

[00:58:37] None of the new Democrats are going to ask that question to their own government minister and the BC liberals take a slightly different stance on it. And you know, that’s a position that’s out there has largely held and respectable. Uh, and so there’s the conversation that is happening in the public is not always reflected in.

[00:59:01] You know, the halls of our legislature and our parliament. I think that gets to what Jillian said about a need for demographic change in politics. And it comes and it just takes it’s annoyingly slow, but it does follow along. We have, you know, maybe a couple of minutes before we should wrap it up. Cause I know you’d have to head off Jillian and might be a ran out.

[00:59:22] So I should also head off as well. And I’ve been on too many zoom calls and streamings today. Um, But we’ve done 200 episodes. Scott, we’ve actually done probably like 210. Once you count some bonus episodes and a few other things we’ve released

[00:59:39] Scott de Lange Boom: probably about two 10,

[00:59:40] Ian Bushfield: somewhere in there we

[00:59:42] Jillian Stead: planned, what are your favorite?

[00:59:45] We want to know what, which is your favorite episode from each you.

[00:59:48] Ian Bushfield: So you asked this earlier by email, which would have given me time to think about it, but I

[00:59:54] Jillian Stead: know I’m putting out a spot

[00:59:55] Ian Bushfield: very much. Didn’t um, I have loved most of our interviews. We’ve interviewed some great people over the couple of years.

[01:00:04] Scott de Lange Boom: It’s Kevin, uh, Steven Carter from the strategists on was

[01:00:08] Stewart Prest: really fun.

[01:00:09] Ian Bushfield: Yeah. Yeah. Cause we, when I was thinking about starting this podcast, I was like, I kind of want to like strategist type podcasts, but for all for BC politics and then their podcast went off the air, uh, they canceled it shortly after we started.

[01:00:25] And then disappeared for awhile. Yeah. Well, and their website, their website expired all of their stuff expired and then they just like relaunched a month ago or so. Pretending as though nothing ever happened. So that was fun. David, most golf was always fun to have, uh, Lindsey Ted’s was a great supporter and great guy.

[01:00:48] Every time we had her on Kevin Milligan, all the economists and academics. You Stewart, I’ve always been good. You were fun. Jillian. When your past appearances and the live shows, the live shows were amazing. There’s so much fun. Especially when you can see the audience, instead of, I can just like see the number of people watching on Facebook and they’re not even leaving comments for us.

[01:01:07] So I can’t answer those.

[01:01:09] Stewart Prest: Oh, come

[01:01:09] Jillian Stead: on guys. And so in terms of like feature guests, what does the next year hold, who do you guys want to get is, you know, tier one begets we’re talking, here

[01:01:22] Ian Bushfield: you go. First, Scott.

[01:01:23] Scott de Lange Boom: Uh, party leaders. I think I we’ve interviewed a few of the leadership candidates. Those are actually thinking about this more former party leaders and former premiers would be particularly interesting.

[01:01:37] The thing about interviewing politicians as they always have a message to get out. Whereas the EDS politicians are always the better interviews because they. Don’t really have to care too much about what their message is and to be a lot more truthful and reveal the interesting things.

[01:01:56] Ian Bushfield: Yeah. We’ve had David Eby on a few times.

[01:01:58] We’ve had a few other politicians and they’ll get so stuck on their message or their line that it’s boring. Um, It’s kind of why I do like interviewing green party candidate, politicians

[01:02:12] Stewart Prest: to say the same thing

[01:02:13] Ian Bushfield: there.

[01:02:13] Stewart Prest: If they don’t have a repeat

[01:02:15] Ian Bushfield: and have as many lines, um, maybe there’s a tie in for why they don’t do as well.

[01:02:20] But do you know it is a, it is an earnest thing and I like it. You know, my dream get is still on. We’ve talked about this before, maybe not on the podcast itself, but as John Horgan, but not to talk politics, but to talk star Trek.

[01:02:37] Jillian Stead: Count me out of that one.

[01:02:41] Ian Bushfield: Not for everyone. Yeah. No,

[01:02:44] Stewart Prest: it’s controversial.

[01:02:48] Jillian Stead: Well, yeah, I mean, I, one thing just, uh, using on my role as, um, you know, a PR strategist, we are seeing a huge push from clients lately to get on some of these smaller podcasts. Because again, if you want to reach the grassroots, the people who are the advocates for these different, um, different causes, different movements.

[01:03:09] Then you got to go onto these podcasts. And so I started, I only hope that we Asher in a new era of politicians who are not afraid of, or above doing these smaller type of podcasts because they actually get a lot more influence or a lot more impact out of doing these types of things. Parents is where they can sit down and really get into the nitty gritty.

[01:03:28] Then they do offer, you know, a global news article, um, because in a world where there’s so many niche media options, um, You really should be going for these, these types. So that’s our call to action on Ian and Scott’s behalf for me, do the clients do the popularity. The popular thing you can do is actually start doing some more of these appearances.

[01:03:50] Ian Bushfield: I’ll say part of it has been, we just haven’t. We just haven’t reached out to enough. Yeah. As many times I would imagine we could probably get Andrew Wilkinson. Cause I know he’s done. Just what you’re saying. Yeah. Yeah. He went on this as Ben color, a number of other. Show. So we just haven’t reached out to his office yet, frankly.

[01:04:09] And that’s because we are very busy here. Like barely keeping up with, you know, the week’s news, but there’s lots of, we want to keep doing, we’re going to

[01:04:19] Scott de Lange Boom: keep doing it. You want to help us get more people on the podcast, go to patrion.com and let us hire a, uh,

[01:04:27] Stewart Prest: assistant. It’s all gone. Tears. It is really remarkable.

[01:04:34] And I think one of the things that, uh, I think is a, uh, I’m really impressive about the podcast is not just the podcast itself, but the way it’s created this sort of community that gets together. And then, so they see that in some of the other elements of, of your, your Patrion community and the funding, but also the Slack channels, there’s discussions of politics.

[01:04:53] And you just sort of have this there’s band of folks who like to talk about politics and like to talk about it in a, in a pretty wonky way at times, and soon to move there’s room for the horse race politics, but to move beyond that and to, to talk about, you know, the. The, the newest, uh, environmental policy documents from the different parties and to actually walk through the details of, of the policies being enrolled.

[01:05:13] And where is it strong? Where does it not make sense or does it not add up to, to get into that level of detail and to have that in a, uh, Yeah, it’s a, it’s a public forum where there is room for people to just do, to come across different aspects. You would normally hear where you would normally just see, uh, a personality driven contest and argument on the, on the, on the news highlights and the clips put together.

[01:05:38] And that way, the way in which people consume news, this is just a very different format. And you’re doing this in your spare time while doing actual data day jobs and things like that. I think it’s really impressive.

[01:05:50] Jillian Stead: Yeah, congrats guys.

[01:05:51] Scott de Lange Boom: Thanks.

[01:05:55] Ian Bushfield: Well, I’ll let you lead us out, Scott.

[01:05:58] Scott de Lange Boom: And that has been PolitiCoast.

[01:05:59] Find everything we talked about at politicoast dot ca

[01:06:05] Our intro music credit is Beautiful British Columbia by Serge Plotnikoff.

[01:06:10] PolitiCoast is production of Leg-in-Boot media. Wash your hands and stay home.

[01:06:14] Stewart Prest: Thanks for listening.

[01:06:17] Scott de Lange Boom: Thanks for watching.

[01:06:19] Ian Bushfield: Thank you everyone. Good night.

[01:06:22] Jillian Stead: Thanks. Thanks guys.